mercman

I have been working on speaker and amp mods for my tech ELS system. I have done a bit of testing a research into the best way to add more power and improve the sound of the system. Some background into the system;
The ELS audio system uses a multichannel amp with internal DSP tuned to get the best sound out of the cheap factory speakers. Each source is independently Eq’d so when you play a CD the eq is different from say XM. The power output is typical 12volt car audio at 12-18watts/ch with each speaker having its own amp channel for a total of 7. The front tweeters are connected to the door speakers via a cap mounted on the tweeter.
The HU feeds a constant level audio signal to the amp where it is converted to digital for processing. All the audio adjustments take place in the amp via a control channel, so when you adjust the HU volume/bass and what not the changes happen in the amp. This means that you can’t just bypass the amp without losing the ability to control the sound.
Why I wanted to ditch the ELS amp, I have posted most of this previously:
The extra A/D and D/A conversion
Whippy output power
Overly boosted Highs when aftermarket speakers are installed
And lastly, I ran a 1k sine wave though it and checked the output and was shocked at the distortion

Ok, so what I did was build my own digitally controlled analog preamp that will receive the control data from the HU and operated just like the ELS amp but without the EQ and distortion. The following pictures are of my proof of concept (POC) design temporarily installed in my TSX for rear world testing. So far the sound is fantastic and all of the functions like Nav voice and BT are working. I took it for a long drive and had my wife listen to it, she loved it, and this is good because she could not take the shrill from the ELS system after I installed the new speakers.
The POC is three boxes, the controller, the preamp and a line driver. I will make a prototype with all systems in one case. I am also working on mounting the sub under the factory opening so the sub box in the photo is just for tests.






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The double box is the pre amp and line driver (mounted on top). Also notice that I used the finest audio interconnects around. The metal box is the controller.



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This is the pre amp installed with tie wraps



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This is the JL and Rockford (sub amp) and the 8” boston sub. The sub box is .3cuft sealed and should fit under the rear deck (if I ever get to it). The amps are just mounted to the board so I can bring them in for bench testing. I still need to find a place for them.




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The controller is accessible so I can connect the laptop for monitoring and program changes.

The POC unit is a mix of surface mount and hand wired components and I expect to have a single more durable unit soon so I can button the truck up.
So this is what I have,
Polk db components up front
Polk db coaxial in the rear doors (not yet powered) and rear deck lid. I might switch to the doors.
8’ Boston sub in a .3 cu/ft. sealed box.
Jl300/4 front and rear
RFG sub amp
No center channel but I have the option of adding it, I just can’t see wasting an amp on it so the prototype will sum the center to the fronts in DVD-A surround and Dolby Pro logic playback. I can make this an option if I want.
Jeff

White92

Nice work! I can't believe nobody has commented on this yet. There are a million threads about adding aftermarket equipment to this car with no real answers. This is the answer guys! This is what we've been waiting for that all of the big name companies can't give us!

patcracks

this is really good nice job mercman! thanks for doing this, are you going to be selling this kind of kit or somethin ? could probably make a few bucks and id be a customer

Hammer97e

Good work. I am planning on essentially doing the same, but with the Audison Bit One.

Limitor

Nice work.Can you give us more information about the controller unit.Where can i find it ?

mercman

Hammer97e
If you have the tech package with the ELS audio then you would have to take the speaker outs from the ELS amp and install a Bit1 for each amp output. You still have to put up with the ELS EQ that changes depending on the source as well as the excessively hi THD from the ELS amp. If you try to take the signal before the amp then you will have no way for the HU to control the signal so you would have no volume, tone, NavVoice, BT or mute control when the HU changes modes so it will pop like heck. You would also need a Bit one for each amp input and some way of switching between 6ch 2ch and voice modes. So it won’t work.

Limitor
The controller unit is my own design with code that I wrote so it is only available in my trunk for now. Also, the controller is designed to control the preamp I designed so it will do you no good to have it alone.

Jeff

TSX_BlackPearl

great job jeff this is what quality audio means!!! no just boom boxes lol

DJMcGee

This is truly awesome work. Congrats and thanks for sharing.

Hammer97e

A Bit One would work, it has 8 channels of Hi Level Inputs, of up to 50 watts each, so you can do interface it after the oem amp, if you aren't able to do it before. It also has 8 channels of outputs. Each channel has its own 1/3 octave EQ as well as independent crossovers. It's made exactly for install scenarios such as this, although it's not the least inexpensive route to take. I have done several Bit One installs in Audi's, BMW's, etc and most recently a 3G TL. With independent 1/3 octave EQs on all 8 channels, you can make the necessary adjustments for the acoustics of the car and the oem eq. I admit it's not ideal, manipulating signal that's already manipulated, but unfortunately it's becoming more and more of the standard these days.

Hammer97e

I really dig what you are doing and certainly don't mean to come across otherwise. Keep up the good work!!!

TSX_BlackPearl

correct me if i'm wrong but the bit one does the same as the LC7 audio control convert high to low. how much the audison cost??

ipatella

Reading the OP reminds me of my first day of college. I don't understand any of it. Thanks for posting though, you seem to know what you're doing. Thanks dude.

TSX_BlackPearl

hey jeff any updates ??????

mkamma

My audio system is completely dead on 2010 tsx, no sound from speakers but the head unit seems to be playing the files, i have an appointment with acura on friday have to see what they are going to tell me,
please go to
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

and file a complaint, more the complaints quicker will be the action by acura

mkamma

could you send me the VB code you have may be I can get some one to change it to C#. I have several friends who work in dot net. Also can you email me the pictures of original amplifier and do you intend to sell it? How do I trouble shoot my problem of shorting fuse-its a rebuilt car and out of warranty.
thanks in advance
mkamma@yahoo.com

mkamma

well I opened the amplifier and it is smelling like it is burnt, acura refused to replace it because of a previous accident now I am wondering if I should buy problematic ELS amplifier from acura or if I should upgrade to a non factory amp and speakers? is any one selling their ELS amplifier? 2nd generation? email mkamma@yahoo.com with price

mercman

I have been busy with another project and have not had time to finish the final PCB. I can report that the POC system is working great and had no issues with the summer heat. I need to get back to the PCB ASAP. I have been so busy that my amps are still not fully installed, just mounted to a board on the floor of the trunk, kind of in the way.
mkamma, I will email you so you can tell me more about your issue.
Jeff

sonu_7

hey jeff i been following all your posts about your project and glad to see you've finally made it to this point, good job.

I have a 10w7 installed in my 09 TSX using the factory subwoofer signal. It sounds horrible, i guess the amp is sending selected frequencies to the sub that Elliot Schnider thought the stock subwoofer could reproduce effectively, and leaving out the ones that would distort on the stock sub. The result is loud clean bass on some frequencies and then almost no bass on other frequencies (mostly the higher ones ) for example bass drops only hit the subwoofer under 80hz.

My installer told me that the rear deck speakers are getting ALL the low frequencies and that if he tapped into their signal I would get a more frequencices out of my subwoofer. Is this true ??( yes i would lose my HU subwoofer control but im willing to sacrifice that for better sound at this point )
My understanding was that all the channels in the Tech TSX get discrete signals, will the deck speakers not be getting selective frequencies as well ? Please reply ASAP as hes doing these mods tomorrow lol, i'll let you know how it goes anyway

mkamma

Well I opened the stock amplifier and noticed that TDA7560 IC is burnt, there are several of them on ebay for less then 15 bucks,I brought one from US( rest of them are from hongkong), I will replace it next week and will let you know the results. Its amazing how cheap the quality (build) of panasonic (ELS) amplifier is, it probably costed them $20 they are selling it for $875 in acura-such a rip off. I do niot know if the failure of IC is a result of speaker failure or not, but I will test it and report it here. Thank you all for being very supportive

mkamma

I replaced the IC and it is working fine, took me 15 mins to replace IC and another 10 mins to reinstall the amplifier. So for every one whose fuse at #15 is blowing, open the amplifier and look for a burnt tda 7560 IC. If it is burnt replace it with a new one from ebay for 7.00$
dont pay acura $875 if you need help email me

mapleloaf

Impressive. Fortunately for the rest of us, listening to the ELS system is more than just fine. I enjoy my current Premium system on my 2010 and can hardly wait for my 2012 Tech. The clarity with the existing speakers is excellent unless you are truly an audiophile with your obvious technical capabilities and interest. I find the system better than most over amped Boise systems in other upscale manufacturers. But I don`t listen at excessive decibels and prefer softer rock music and classical.

Mr. NC

Not going to lie this was waaaaaay over my head but this was a great read nonetheless

sonu_7

are you selling this yet ? i got my sub wired to my rear deck output right now, its better than having it wired to the stock sub output cuz i got more frequencies this way, but its still annoying and when switching to prologic i lose those frequencies. plus i also wanna put in aftermarket speakers cuz im tired of blowing out the stock tech speakers and i dont wanna replace them an deal with that shrilly sound your talkin about, i know it would annoy me, so i dont wanna replace them until/unless your selling your setup with some decent instructions

mercman

I am thinking about building them but right now I am working on the base 2nd gen and a new adapter for the 1st gen. My prototype is working really well and I have a few ideas that might make it less expensive to build. I don’t know if this would be something that more than a few would want. In any case, it wouldn’t be something that I would sell on AZ since I’m not a vendor, “just a rocket scientist”.
I have some parts around from the prototype build but would need to do a new PC board since I made a bunch of changes to the original design. As far as the circuits go, I’m very happy with the design so it would just be a PCB and a case to put it in.
As far as the install you would just unplug the factory amp, plug in the preamp and connect your amps to the RCAs. No adjustments or set up to do.
Jeff

mercman

I pulled my system out of the 2009 for my lease return inspection this week. I can’t describe the improvement it made over the stock ELS system. If I get into another TSX tech I will be building a new unit that will include all the changes I made to the original. I also plan on redoing the speaker mounts to make them easier to install and remove. Lastly, the sub box mounting will need to change so you can replace the sub without ripping out the rear package shelf.

Jeff

oldirTySX

Hey Mercman, I'm sure you've been PM'ed like crazy about it, but what are your thoughts about building the pre-ELS bypass or sharing with us the "know how" so we can replicate it? I know I would throw some $ down to get one and/or a guide to make my own.

mercman

I went with the 2012 Tech so it’s time to get moving on the final preamp. The ELS is a nice system but can be made way better.

Jeff

DrzBlueBoy

Please let me know if you have made an line output interface for the 2nd Gen tech pkg. audio system for sale. I'm definitely down to buy, I'm trying to change all speakers in my car before the summer. Please advise

dnd2984

iTrader: (6)

I have a full system in my TL with a JL 12 w7 but want to add a little bit more bass to the ELS in my TSX tech was thinking of a 10in JL w1 and 150 watt amp. Or maybe even the infinity basslink. How hard is this? Could i use a LOC to tap the signal of the stock sub?

mercman

That’s the only way you can do it in the ELS since the other speakers are fully eq’d and the only real bass signal is at the sub wires.
Should be OK, but it depends on what you are expecting.
Jeff

DrzBlueBoy
I should have something before the summer, I really hate the ELS sound,

Jeff

dnd2984

iTrader: (6)

Hi Jeff my exceptions are cleaner and a little bit louder bass.
I was thinking of going with this
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500SBRS...3V.html?tp=112
And a 200 to 300 watt RMS amp.
And change the front door speakers to some efficient infinitys or something and run them with factory power.

I am also thinking I might yank the system out of my TL, cause my parents need a second car and was going to give it to them... But I don't think they need a system

So thinking I could maybe put my 12w7 with my 500/1. But if I did that I would want to change out the front speakers and amp them. But would also want to keep the 5.1 audio. Is this possible for me to do at home. I have installed many systems but all were just simple 2 channel stereo with sub.

mercman

As long as you use an amp with speaker level inputs or a line converter to take the signal from the factory speaker you shouldn’t have a problem installing it yourself. Keep in mind that the ELS amp is tuned to work with the factory speakers so the mids and highs are boosted way up. A good set of components will expose this and it might become unbearable. This is what happened to me after I installed my components in the 09 ELS and ultimately lead to the preamp I designed to replace the ELS amp.
Jeff

Waj5

Hey Jeff, I have a 2008 RDX tech. Know the best way to install speakers all the way around? Use crossovers or not? I have other amps from previous installs, but I know that I can not just simply hook them up, like I did in my GSR. Any suggestions?

evo9

Hey Jeff, I would like to purchase one of your digital preamp for my 2013 TSX ELS system. Please PM me.

shawnamin

Are you gonna sell your pre amp design or maybe put up a DIY, i know a lot of us here are really interested.

evo9

^^ Would be nice if he answers the post or PM's sent.......

sonu_7

Hey guys, Ive had my JL Audio W7 set up to the subwoofer channel but it sounded like crap. Ive had it connected to my rear deck channel for two years now. As long as Pro Logic is turned off, it sounds great. Its the best solution you can achieve without doing all this pre-amp stuff. And Jeff is one of those guys that is educated in this field and has the time and effort to achieve perfection. He offered to sell me his pre-amp set up but his lease was ending on his TSX too so I think he's moved on with life.

mercman

Yes, one step forward and two back. I opened my own business this year and officially started dealing direct with the public on April 1st. I repair Hi Fi, Guitar pro audio and car audio amps. I have been doing this wholesale for about 15 years and have over 40 years of experience in electronics. I run a dedicated full time shop and have all the tools I need to fix a vintage tube or a modern surface mount unit. I am licensed and insured and working as a type S corporation.
That’s the forward part now for the back, Sunday night I slipped going down the steps at my nieces house and broke my ankle in several places. Got home from the hospital last night and have lots of pain meds in me. The surgery was performed by a specialist that just deals with hips and ankles I have a few plates and a couple of screws. I also have three amps a two mixers in the shop that were scheduled to be finished this week. I can’t get to the shop, and the doctor says it will be three weeks of bed rest before I can consider going on the stairs or sitting at the bench.
Cheers
Jeff

Pezeagles

Glad to hear you started your own business. People are lucky if they find you for business. So sorry to hear about your ankle. That sounds extremely painful. Been thur same thing. Good luck to ya

BlackNsexy2010

Is the store out on Long Island?