curls

Would there be a large benefit from using both the P2R IM gasket, as well as the Hondata IM gasket, in the same vehicle? Isn't the purpose of both to block the heat from the block from heating up the intake manifold?

Is this the 'ol 80/20 rule, where the first gasket (whichever you install) gets 80% of the reduction of temp, and the other gasket only gets marginally (20%) more?

I can get either gasket for about the same price, or both for about $100 all-in. Would it be worth doing both for $100 or should I pick one over the other for only $50?

Installation is free (DIY) but I hear the Hondata one is a lot more involved than the P2R one... either way I don't mind though.

moda_way

I will be installing the P2R one this spring and already have the Hondata one on... the P2R is just sitting on my work bench at the moment. The Hondata sits against the block and the P2R sits on the manifold side against the injector base. So by not having heat coming from the block to the injector base (Hondata gasket) is good. Additionally, you want to isolate the heat coming from the injector base from heat soaking the intake manifold (P2R gasket). Gains will probably be minimal.

godfather2

i thought i was done modding, now your telling me the p2r may help (don't they have spacers too). N/A all the way baby, ftw

curls

So overall with both gaskets, we might be looking at about 3whp (as per JTso's dyno back in 2006), and that 3whp is only above ~6000 rpm?

Maybe it's not worth it, although $20-$30 per every 1 whp isn't too bad of a cost:power ratio.

moda_way

If you are going to do the spacer, there are also gaskets for that as well.

moda_way

Depends on what "worth it" means to you.

godfather2

time to pm excelerate ...

chuson

Never thought of using 2 IM Gasket... lol... I wonder if that will provide any additional gain.

All my P2R gasket/spacer was sent to MaxBore right now along w/ IM/TB... waiting for it to return.

curls

So if I think about it this way (thinking while typing), the distance between both gaskets would be what, a matter of inches? So by using both gaskets, you're preventing the heating effect of that area between the gaskets -- the injector base.

Since this area is small, I'm thinking there isn't much compound benefit by using both gaskets, and one would probably be better off using the P2R one to isolate everything upstream of the injector base from heat soak. Using the Hondata one on its own would isolate some of the engine heat from reaching the other components, but since the injector base still gets hot, it isn't doing a whole lot. I could be way off here, and the truly better gasket in terms of location could be the Hondata one, I don't know.

Coupled with the TB coolant bypass, maybe the P2R one is the best, maybe the Hondata one is the best (dollars-to-degrees), maybe using both is actually highly compounding... who knows. Just opening up the discussion a bit more.

curls

One more thing... if I think about it in terms of heated surface area, the intake manifold is much larger than the injector base, so if one had to choose ONE gasket only, I'd think the best solution would be from the P2R standpoint since it's 'protecting' a larger surface area from heat via the block/injector base.

chuson

curls...

Are you talking about the Hondata and P2R IM Gasket? I thought they are identical piece (close), and there shouldn't be additional benefit over another. I'm not sure if you will see better result w/ 2 IM Gasket. W/ the thickness of 2 IM gasket, I think the whole intake tube and related will shift more to the front might knock on the battery.

CarbonGray Earl

Pretty much what Moda_way said, but just to add....

Ideally, you still want both TB isolation and manifold isolation. I currently only have the P2R spacer, gaskets, and the TB bypass. With this, my TB is cool enough to touch and keep your finger on it due to it being completely isolated from coolant flow and the intake manifold, but the manifold is still as too hot to keep your fingers on it. On a side note, I've got an Icebox and a vented fog light cover that's getting its air from the outside, so its probably keeping the air cool as well.

But it isn't the contact area between just the injector base and the IM that you should be worried about. Its the hot surface area of the IM contacting the air that's more important. The IM is metal, so it soaks up the heat very easily and throughout the entire IM. Hence, more hot surface area touching the air inside IM.

With the Hondata IM Gasket, you isolate the IM from this effect. While cold air is coming in from the TB, it still has to sit as a well of air in the manifold. The cooler that manifold is, theoretically the higher volume of air can be forced into that chamber. Its even better if that air coming in can be cooler air as well.

Hence, the less hot surface area=greater volume or "well" of air about to be sucked in=more o2 sitting closer to for the engine=response and torque.

To sum it up even further:

Cold air sitting in Icebox goes to -> Isolated TB that keeps things cool -> Isolated IM which can keep more cool air, right before it enters the engine -> engine sucks in more air -> a little better response and torque -> good times

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

i could've swore there was a thread about using both IM gaskets together, and the person asked if there would be enough threads on the bolts used to mount the IM back on and jtso said it'd be fine.

i actually bought both gaskets after i read that you can use both together a few months ago. i just need to find a time to install them. i'm not under the impression that this will add HP. it'll just reduce/slowdown the heatsoak around the IM.

on a side note since p2r is a topic, i had emailed them to ask if they're going produce a power plenum for the K24's. they're not b/c of spacing issues, but supposedly they're looking into possibly making a spacer plate that goes on the mid-section of the IM.

thought i'd just throw that out there.

curls

They look similar but actually install in two separate places... not on top of each other.
See here:
the hondata gasket replaces #11 in the first diagram.

the powerrev gasket replaces #3 in the second diagram.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...6&postcount=13

curls

You just did a better job of explaining it. I did say surface area (inside the manifold/TB/etc...) but didn't elaborate. What you said above is exactly what I meant - IM is the part that has the largest inner surface area = has the largest potential effect on warming the incoming air. Isolating the IM should be top priority of the intake stream downstream of the CAI/Icebox junction with the TB point.

If I have this straight, the heat would travel as follows:
BLOCK --> INJECTOR BASE --> INTAKE MANIFOLD --> THROTTLE BODY --> CAI/ICEBOX.

If you cut off the coolant w/ the TB coolant bypass, that takes care of almost all of the heat from sources outside of the BLOCK itself.

Now, the remaining heat is coming from the block. If you were to cut it off via the Hondata gasket, you've effectively cooled the injector base, right? Well the injector base is still relatively small compared to the surface area of the IM. And the injector base is heated via coolant (I might be way wrong on that part), so an alternative would be to put in the P2R gasket, and seal the IM and TB from the blocks' heat. This would leave the injector rail warm but its a small portion of the overall surface area = not as big a concern.

So IF someone were to pick one gasket, I'd think it should be the P2R one, and then ensure that you have the TB coolant bypass done. That would only leave the injector base as heated and that's not a big issue since 80% of the surface area belongs to the TB + IM (maybe more than 80%).

Just my ramblings, please discuss!

moda_way

Actually, if I had to pick one, it would be the Hondata one plus the TB coolant bypass. The hondata one takes care of the engine block heat and you already discussed the coolant bypass.

TSX2345

I have BOTH gaskets. Nice and Cool to the touch

curls

So I assume the injector base isn't heated via a coolant line like the TB is? Interesting... I might get just the Hondata one then.

chuson

Thanks for your info, now I understood.

I've sent e-mail to P2R in Jan regarded to the K24 Plenum, basically this is not an option. However, they are looking into Extended IM Runner, and said would be ready in March. I still don't see any updates tho.

moda_way

I believe there is coolant in there which is why you have to drain the coolant when putting the Hondata gasket on, but I still still more heat coming from the block than the coolant. Coolant reaches what, 160F, but I bet the block is much hotter. Either way, doing both is still okay.

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

lol. that's exactly what i said in my post!

GSGOMEZ

Hello, I have Hondata gasket on my TSX already and have been heard about P2R Thermal gasket and Throttle body with 2 gaskets. I understand what different between Thermal gasket and Throttle body on K24. I wonder if I should get Thermal gasket and Throttle body or just Throttle body only? Because of Hondata gasket is already there. I thought that Thermal gasket and Throttle body with Hondata gaskets might be giving K24 engine run much better and less intake air temperature intake manifold and power delivery. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
George

GSGOMEZ

I already got P2R gasket for IM last night and installed it. Also, my TSX had Hondata gasket too. It is worth!!

godfather2

thanks for the info gomez

GSGOMEZ

Cool, no plms.